‘I have 2 sets of twins. We follow a strict schedule or our house would be chaos.’ American Kim Ngo Woodward

‘I try to keep my sanity by calendaring everything…Each part relies on everyone finishing and doing their job at a certain time so that the next agenda item gets attended to.’

Our That Mama this month is lifestyle family photographer Kim Ngo Woodward. She and her husband, both from the San Francisco, Bay Area have been living in Singapore for 12 years. They have two girls (4.5 years old) and two boys (7 months). We chat with Kim about life as a mum of two sets of twins, from how she manages to get through the day with this many small people to look after (the answer involves a very structured schedule) to her ‘psychologically wise’ parenting style. Kim opens up about how she felt pressure from fellow career-driven feminists when she decided to stop working to concentrate on starting a family and shares some of the challenges of parenting such as trying not to compare one twin to another twin. Read on for an insightful interview and stunning family pics!

Read our past That Mama interviews here.

Tell us something quirky about yourself!

I’m obsessed with children’s books so I may need an intervention before I bury my kids in piles of books!

Walk us through your career pre and post-kids

I have spent over a decade in the technology industry, including in mobile applications, social media, gaming and enterprise sectors. I’ve worked in Startups, Venture Capital, Facebook and even started my own tech startup. I was the co-founder and Chief Growth Officer of DishDash, a technology-enabled corporate catering platform that empowered businesses to manage their employee meal needs and perqs. Five years after DishDash, I took a step back when I became pregnant with twin girls. One year later, COVID-19 happened and with all the downtime and lockdowns, I dabbled in photography, but didn’t take it seriously until June 2021 when I fully launched my business Kim Ngo Woodward Photography.

Four years after my first set of twins, I became pregnant with my second set of twins, boys this time. Today, I am a full-time mother of four kids and one furbaby. Currently, I am a Lifestyle Family Photographer and will be entering graduate school at Boston University for my MBA this fall.

You made a decision to give up your high-flying career in start-up business to concentrate on trying for a family – was this a conflicted decision?

Absolutely, especially because I was working during a time when opportunities for women were really opening up. I grew up in the center of the feminist movement, in the US and in tech, where it’s sort of frowned upon to not work or rely on another person. The vast majority of my friends are strong, career-driven women. The pressure was felt, especially when I shared with my friends that I was going to take a step back and focus on family. With responses like, “I could never do that. Are you sure you want to give up your career? That doesn’t sound like you.” My choice isn’t for everyone, but I’m glad I followed my instinct and have no regrets about my decision.

How do you manage the logistical aspects of daily life with four children close in age?

When they say, “It takes a village to raise a child,” it’s true. I need four to five villagers to get the job done – two nannies, my very involved husband, my mom when she’s in town, and me. I’m fortunate to be living in Singapore where domestic help is affordable and the quality of nannies is amazing. It’s really hard to imagine how I would have been able to raise my kids in what I aim to be a high-engagement and nurturing environment (my boys get zero screen time and my girls might get three hours per week, if they’re lucky) without my nannies. My nannies are superhumans. My family and I are able to live happier, healthier lives with a level of sanity because of my nannies and because of full-time nursery school for my older set of twins.

Because of the help from my nannies, I am still able to build my lifestyle family photography business. And because of them, I am somewhat confident of going back to school with four young children. I know it’s going to be very stressful and a lot of work getting my MBA, even with help. But I certainly would have never applied had I not had help.

What’s your parenting philosophy?

My most important job in life is being a mom and raising my children the right way.  As such, I try to devote as much time, energy, and thoughtfulness into doing it as possible. Anna Duckworth’s book, Grit, had a lot of influence on my husband and me. If you’re familiar with that book and the different parenting styles she describes, we are very intentional about adhering to a “psychologically wise” parenting style, where we try to give our kids lots of love, we demand high standards, set limits and boundaries with them, but give them latitude within those boundaries to develop their own passions and dreams.

With four kids and two sets of twins, I have to have a well-defined philosophy about managing the pure logistics of our operation.  I try to be as proactive as possible and really plan ahead.  I try to keep my sanity by calendaring everything and then I strictly follow my calendar as much as possible (if my calendar told me to jump off a bridge, you’d probably find me at the bridge putting on gear).

Do you follow any parenting guides to help get your kids on routines?

I have a very structured schedule. With four kids and a dog, I have to be proactive and plan way in advance. If I am not proactively planning their schedules, including sleep, our house would be chaos. The only way to optimize my kids’ engagement and development is to have the whole house on schedule with the kids. I don’t follow any one guide. I read and learn from different guides but always modify and adjust depending on a child’s personality or needs. I develop my own guide as we go.

What does the bedtime routine (and the night shift) look like in your house – do each set of twins share a room? 

Yes, each set of twins shares a room. Our sleep routine changes every six months but as of now: My husband and I put our toddlers to bed (each reading to them) and if they wake it’s either me or my husband who attends to them. But to be honest, they sleep through the night 99% of the time. They were sleep trained from 1.5 years old (which I think was pretty late).

For the baby boys, we have a night nanny (who was also my night nanny for my first set of twins). She’s a superstar. We went to the US for two months and since we had limited help there, my nanny had to get resourceful. She was able to sleep-train my baby boys without knowing it (although she swears they are super easy). The boys were four months old at the time. Now, they are almost seven months old and they go down by themselves, zero rocking, just a few pats and they are down. I highly recommend parents look into sleep training early.

What are some of the biggest challenges you’ve faced as a parent of two sets of twins, and how have you overcome them?

To be honest, I wouldn’t say we’ve had that many challenges and things have gone pretty smoothly so far (knock on wood). We have a 1:1 adult to child ratio so we can still play “man-to-man” defence. Also, my toddlers are in pre-school full time so that helps a lot. But if I had to cite one fairly consistent day-to-day challenge, I would say the mornings are the hardest because everyone needs to be attended to at the same time:  getting the toddlers ready for school, feeding the babies and preparing them for their morning walk, and making sure our dog gets his morning walk/exercise before it gets hot so he doesn’t get super hyper throughout the day. We just follow a strict schedule and assign who is responsible for what. Each part relies on everyone finishing and doing their job at a certain time so that the next agenda item gets attended to.

Another challenge I would say is trying not to compare one twin to another twin. Both sets are fraternal, not identical twins. So they really are unique little people. Sometimes we see one twin in the set crawl well ahead of the other or pick up cognitive skills before the other. The temptation is to think the lagging twin in the set isn’t on the right development track or something could be wrong. We learned with the first set of twins, our girls, that they just develop on different tracks at their own pace and there is nothing wrong with that. I think with our twin boys, we won’t jump to conclusions as quickly about development milestones and lags and will take things more in stride.

How do you ensure that each child receives individual attention and feels equally valued within your family?

That part hasn’t been easy and I’d say it is a work in progress. Purely out of logistical necessity, we tend to think of each set of twins as a single unified entity, so individual attention can at times get lost in the shuffle. However, each one has a unique personality and different needs. Patterns emerge around meltdowns, moods when sleepy, and other individual proclivities. At times you have no choice but to appreciate their individuality and interact with them as distinct individuals to meet their specific needs. As they mature and develop their individuality more fully, it is something we will need to be more intentional about.

What are your strategies for maintaining a sense of balance and harmony within your household amidst the busyness of raising four children?

Be proactive
Plan ahead
Be a strict calendar adherent
5 P’s: Proper, Preparation, Prevents, Poor, Performance for everyone.
Constant engagement
Lots of playdates and other planned activities

What advice would you give to other parents who are expecting or already have multiple births?

If possible, get help in the early days but with twins it gets easier because they both go on the same playdates, events, activities, parties, etc.  Perhaps the best part is that you don’t have to entertain them as much as a singleton because they entertain each other.

What are some memorable moments that stand out to you in your journey as a parent of two sets of twins?

Many, but everything is a blur at the moment.

What are some strategies you’ve found effective for maintaining your own wellbeing while managing the demands of parenting four young children?

Hire help
Facials and selfcare
Daily workout
Communication with my husband and ask for help when I need it.
A glass of wine here and there

What’s your definition of success?

Being an amazing mommy and wife.

Quickfire:
I wish I had more time for… to finish my own to-do list
I always feel saner after….  a good BFT (Body Fit Training) workout
As a mama I wish I were better at… relaxing
I wake up in the middle of the night thinking about…. this week’s calendar and to-do list.
My favourite moment of the day is… when the girls get home from school.

Thank you so much Kim, your family is just beautiful and we are in awe of how you manage to fit everything in – work, self-care and motherhood but we love that you are open to asking for help when you need it! Follow Kim on her IG here.

Read our past That Mama interviews here!